The incineration of large numbers of people in Dresden is also indicated by estimates of the extreme temperature reached in Dresden during the firestorm…
I saw the most painful scene ever… Several persons were near the entrance, others at the flight of steps and many others further back in the cellar. The shapes suggested human corpses. The body structure was recognizable and the shape of the skulls, but they had no clothes. Eyes and hair carbonized but not shrunk. When touched, they disintegrated into ashes, totally, no skeleton or separate bones.
I recognized a male corpse as that of my father.
THE DRESDEN DEATH TOLL
Many conflicting estimates have been made concerning the number of deaths during the raids of Dresden on February 13-14, 1945. Historian Richard J. Evans estimates that approximately 25,000 people died during these bombings.[1] Frederick Taylor estimates that from 25,000 to 40,000 people died as a result of the Dresden bombings.[2] A distinguished commission of German historians titled “Dresden Commission of Historians for the Ascertainment of the Number of Victims of the Air Raids on the City of Dresden on 13/14 February 1945” estimates the likely death toll in Dresden at around 18,000 and definitely not more than 25,000.[3] This later estimate is considered authoritative by many sources.
The destruction from the Dresden bombings was so massive that exact figures of deaths will never be obtainable. However, as this article will show, the statement from the Dresden Commission of Historians that “definitely no more than 25,000” died in the Dresden bombings is almost certainly inaccurate.
“bombing must be directed to working class houses. Middle class houses have too much space round them, so are bound to waste bombs.”
“It should be emphasized,” Lindemann said;
“that the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories.” Source: Katana
So How Many Died in the Dresden Bombings?
If the Dresden death toll of at most 25,000 is accurate, we are left with the very odd result that Allied air power, employed for exemplary purposes to its full measure and with no restrictions, over an especially vulnerable large city near the end of the war, when Allied air superiority was absolute and German defenses nearly nonexistent, was less effective than Allied air power used to be in previous more difficult operations such as Hamburg or Berlin. I think the extensive ruins left in Dresden suggest a degree of complete destruction not seen before in Germany.
The Dresden bombings created a massive firestorm of epic proportions, and were not a botched mission with only a fraction of the intended results achieved. The fires from the first raid alone had been visible more than 100 miles from Dresden.[4] The Dresden raid was the perfect execution of the Bomber Command theory of the double blow: two waves of bombers, three hours apart, followed the next day by a massive daylight raid by more bombers and escort fighters. Only a handful of raids ever actually conformed to this double-strike theory, and those that did were cataclysmic.[5]
Dresden also lacked an effective network of air raid shelters to protect its inhabitants. Hitler had ordered that over 3,000 air raid bunkers be built in 80 German towns and cities. However, not one was built in Dresden because the city was not regarded as being in danger of air attack. Instead, the civil air defense in Dresden devoted most of its efforts to creating openings between the cellars of the housing blocks so that people could escape from one building to another. These openings exacerbated the effects of the Dresden firestorm by channeling smoke and fumes from one basement to the next and sucking out the oxygen from a network of interconnected cellars.[6]
The vast majority of the population of Dresden did not have access to proper air raid shelters. When the British RAF attacked Dresden on that fateful night, all the residents and refugees in Dresden could do was take refuge in their cellars. These cellars proved to be death traps in many cases. People who managed to escape from their cellars were often sucked into the firestorm as they struggled to flee the city.[7]
Dresden was all but defenseless against air attack, and the people of Dresden suffered the consequences. The bombers in the Dresden raids were able to conduct their attacks relatively free from fear or harassment by German defenses. The Master Bombers ordered the bombers to descend to lower levels, and the crews felt confident to do so and to maintain a steady height and heading during the bombing runs. This ensured that the Dresden raids were particularly concentrated and thus particularly effective.[8] The RAF conducted a technically perfect fire-raising attack on Dresden.[9]
The British were fully aware that mass death and destruction could result from the bombing of Germany’s cities. The Directorate of Bombing Operations predicted the following consequences from Operation Thunderclap:
“If we assume that the daytime population of the area attacked is 300,000, we may expect 220,000 casualties. Fifty per cent of these or 110,000 may expect to be killed. It is suggested that such an attack resulting in so many deaths, the great proportion of which will be key personnel, cannot help but have a shattering effect on political and civilian morale all over Germany….”[10]
The destruction of Dresden was so complete that major companies were reporting fewer than 50% of their workforce present two weeks after the raids.[11] By the end of February 1945, only 369,000 inhabitants remained in the city. Dresden was subject to further American attacks by 406 B-17s on March 2 and 580 B-17s on April 17, leaving an additional 453 dead.[12]
Comparison to Pforzheim Bombing
A raid that closely resembles that of Dresden occurred 10 days later on February 23, 1945 at Pforzheim. Since neither Dresden nor Pforzheim had suffered much damage earlier in the war, the flammability of both cities had been preserved.[13] A perfect firestorm was created over both of these defenseless cities. These cities also lacked sufficient air raid shelters for their citizens.
The area of destruction at Pforzheim comprised approximately 83% of the city, and 20,277 out of 65,000 people died according to official estimates.[14] Sönke Neitzel also estimates that approximately 20,000 out of a total population of 65,000 died in the raid at Pforzheim.[15] This means that over 30% of the residents of Pforzheim died in one bombing attack.
The question is: If more than 30% of the residents of Pforzheim died in one bombing attack, why would only approximately 2.5% of Dresdeners die in similar raids 10 days earlier? The second wave of bombers in the Dresden raid appeared over Dresden at the very time that the optimum number of fire brigades and rescue teams were in the streets of the burning city. This second wave of bombers compounded the earlier destruction many times, and by design killed the firemen and rescue workers so that the destruction in Dresden could rage on unchecked.[16] The raid on Pforzheim, by contrast, consisted of only one bombing attack. Also, Pforzheim was a much smaller target, so that it would have been easier for the people on the ground to escape from the blaze.
The only reason why the death rate percentage would be higher at Pforzheim versus Dresden is that a higher percentage of Pforzheim was destroyed in the bombings. Alan Russell estimates that 83% of Pforzheim’s city center was destroyed versus only 59% of Dresden’s.[17] This would, however, account for only a portion of the percentage difference in the death tolls. Based on the death toll in the Pforzheim raid, it is reasonable to assume that a minimum of 20% of Dresdeners died in the British and American attacks on the city. The 2.5% death rate figure of Dresdeners estimated by establishment historians is an unrealistically low figure.
If a 20% death rate figure times an estimated population in Dresden of 1 million is used, the death toll figure in Dresden would be 200,000. If a 25% death rate figure times an estimated population of 1.2 million is used, the death toll figure in Dresden would be 300,000. Thus, death toll estimates in Dresden of 250,000 people are quite plausible when compared to the Pforzheim bombing.
So How Were the Dead Bodies Disposed?
Historian Richard Evans asks:
“And how was it imaginable that 200,000 bodies could have been recovered from out of the ruins in less than a month? It would have required a veritable army of people to undertake such work, and hundreds of sorely needed vehicles to transport the bodies. The effort actually undertaken to recover bodies was considerable, but there was no evidence that it reached the levels required to remove this number.”[18]
Richard Evans does not realize that the incineration of dead bodies on the Dresden market square, the Altmarkt, was not the only means of disposing dead bodies at Dresden. A British sergeant reported on the disposal of bodies at Dresden:
They had to pitchfork shriveled bodies onto trucks and wagons and cart them to shallow graves on the outskirts of the city. But after two weeks of work the job became too much to cope with and they found other means to gather up the dead. They burned bodies in a great heap in the center of the city, but the most effective way, for sanitary reasons, was to take flamethrowers and burn the dead as they lay in the ruins. They would just turn the flamethrowers into the houses, burn the dead and then close off the entire area. The whole city is flattened. They were unable to clean up the dead lying beside roads for several weeks.[19]
Other historians cite evidence that bodies were incinerated beyond recognition. Alexander McKee quotes Hildegarde Prasse on what she saw at the Altmarkt after the Dresden bombings:
What I saw at the Altmarkt was cruel. I could not believe my eyes. A few of the men who had been left over [from the Front] were busy shoveling corpse after corpse on top of the other. Some were completely carbonized and buried in this pyre, but nevertheless they were all burnt here because of the danger of an epidemic. In any case, what was left of them was hardly recognizable. They were buried later in a mass grave on the Dresdner Heide.[20]
Marshall De Bruhl cites a report found in an urn by a gravedigger in 1975 written on March 12, 1945, by a young soldier identified only as Gottfried. This report stated:
I saw the most painful scene ever….Several persons were near the entrance, others at the flight of steps and many others further back in the cellar. The shapes suggested human corpses. The body structure was recognizable and the shape of the skulls, but they had no clothes. Eyes and hair carbonized but not shrunk. When touched, they disintegrated into ashes, totally, no skeleton or separate bones.
I recognized a male corpse as that of my father. His arm had been jammed between two stones, where shreds of his grey suit remained. What sat not far from him was no doubt mother. The slim build and shape of the head left no doubt. I found a tin and put their ashes in it. Never had I been so sad, so alone and full of despair. Carrying my treasure and crying I left the gruesome scene. I was trembling all over and my heart threatened to burst. My helpers stood there, mute under the impact.[21]
The incineration of large numbers of people in Dresden is also indicated by estimates of the extreme temperature reached in Dresden during the firestorm. While no one took the actual temperature reached during the Dresden firestorm, many historians estimate that temperatures reached 1,500° Centigrade (2,732° Fahrenheit).[22] Since temperatures in a cremation chamber normally reach only 1,400 degrees to 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit[23], large numbers of people in Dresden would have been incinerated from the extreme heat generated in the firestorm.
Marshall De Bruhl notes that numerous other skeletons of victims were discovered in the ruins of Dresden as rubble was removed or foundations for new buildings were erected. De Bruhl states:
One particularly poignant discovery was made when the ruins adjacent to the Altmarkt were being excavated in the 1990s. The workmen found the skeletons of a dozen young women who had been recruited from the countryside to come into Dresden and help run the trams during the war. They had taken shelter from the rain of bombs in an ancient vaulted subbasement, where their remains lay undisturbed for almost 50 years.[24]
Conclusion
The destruction from the Dresden bombings was so massive that exact figures of deaths will never be obtainable. However, the statement from the Dresden Commission of Historians that “definitely no more than 25,000” died in the Dresden bombings is probably inaccurate. An objective analysis of the evidence indicates that almost certainly far more than 25,000 people died from the bombings of Dresden. Based on a comparison to the Pforzheim bombing and the other available evidence, a death toll in Dresden of 250,000 people is easily possible.
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ENDNOTES
[1] Evans, Richard J., Lying About Hitler: History, Holocaust, and the David Irving Trial, New York: Basic Books, 2001, p. 177.
[2] Taylor, Frederick, Dresden: Tuesday, February 13, 1945, New York: HarperCollins, 2004, p. 354.
[3] http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/death-toll-debate-how-many-died-in-the-bombing-of-dresden-a-581992.html.
[4] Cox, Sebastian, “The Dresden Raids: Why and How,” in Addison, Paul and Crang, Jeremy A., (eds.), Firestorm: The Bombing of Dresden, 1945, Chicago: Ivan R. Dee, 2006, pp. 44, 46.
[5] DeBruhl, Marshall, Firestorm: Allied Airpower and the Destruction of Dresden, New York: Random House, Inc., 2006, pp. 204-205.
[6] Neitzel, Sönke, “The City Under Attack,” in Addison, Paul and Crang, Jeremy A., (eds.), Firestorm: The Bombing of Dresden, 1945, Chicago: Ivan R. Dee, 2006, pp. 68-69.
[7] Ibid., pp. 69, 72, 76.
[8] Cox, Sebastian, “The Dresden Raids: Why and How,” in Addison, Paul and Crang, Jeremy A., (eds.), Firestorm: The Bombing of Dresden, 1945, Chicago: Ivan R. Dee, 2006, pp. 52-53.
[9] Davis, Richard G., Carl A. Spaatz and the Air War in Europe, Washington, D.C.: Center for Air Force History, 1993, p. 557.
[10] Hastings, Max, Bomber Command, New York: The Dial Press, 1979, pp. 347-348.
[11] Cox, Sebastian, “The Dresden Raids: Why and How,” in Addison, Paul and Crang, Jeremy A., (eds.), Firestorm: The Bombing of Dresden, 1945, Chicago: Ivan R. Dee, 2006, p. 57.
[12] Overy, Richard, The Bombers and the Bombed: Allied Air War over Europe, 1940-1945, New York: Viking Penguin, 2014, p. 314.
[13] Friedrich, Jörg, The Fire: The Bombing of Germany, New York, Columbia University Press, 2006, p. 94.
[14] Ibid., p. 91. See also DeBruhl, Marshall, Firestorm: Allied Airpower and the Destruction of Dresden, New York: Random House, Inc., 2006, p. 255.
[15] Neitzel, Sönke, “The City Under Attack,” in Addison, Paul and Crang, Jeremy A., (eds.), Firestorm: The Bombing of Dresden, 1945, Chicago: Ivan R. Dee, 2006, p. 77.
[16] DeBruhl, Marshall, Firestorm: Allied Airpower and the Destruction of Dresden, New York: Random House, Inc., 2006, p. 210. See also McKee, Alexander, Dresden 1945: The Devil’s Tinderbox, New York: E.P. Dutton, Inc., 1984, p. 112.
[17] Russell, Alan, “Why Dresden Matters,” in Addison, Paul and Crang, Jeremy A., (eds.), Firestorm: The Bombing of Dresden, 1945, Chicago: Ivan R. Dee, 2006, p. 162.
[18] Evans, Richard J., Lying About Hitler: History, Holocaust, and the David Irving Trial, New York: Basic Books, 2001, p. 158.
[19] Regan, Dan, Stars and Stripes London edition, Saturday, May 5, 1945, Vol. 5, No. 156.
[20] McKee, Alexander, Dresden 1945: The Devil’s Tinderbox, New York: E.P. Dutton, Inc., 1984, p. 248.
[21] DeBruhl, Marshall, Firestorm: Allied Airpower and the Destruction of Dresden, New York: Random House, Inc., 2006, pp. 253-254.
[22] Alexander McKee cites estimates of 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit (McKee, Alexander, Dresden 1945: The Devil’s Tinderbox, New York: E.P. Dutton, Inc., 1984, p. 176).
[23] http://nfda.org/planning-a-funeral/cremation/160.html#hot.
[24] DeBruhl, Marshall, Firestorm: Allied Airpower and the Destruction of Dresden, New York: Random House, Inc., 2006, p. 254.
WEARS WAR has moved to a new website! 
The death toll could have been 300,000 people who were residents of Dresden but there were, also, 500,000 refugees from the East, who were fleeing the Red Army, and were sleeping rough in city parks. I consider Dresden to be the #1 greatest war-crime of all time and Bomber Harris and Winston Churchill to be among the worst war criminals of all time.
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Yes, Dresden was heinous and horrific. But, it may be that the single most deadly war crime was the US firestorm unleashed on Tokyo in March, 1945. The Japanese are human beings, too. And, it was a war crime (as defined in the indictments at Nuremberg) to intentionally target and destroy civilian population centers.
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And Tokyo was the brainchild of that asshole Curtis LeMay, who also commanded the 8th Air Force, for a long time, in England.
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This official death toll figure of 25,000 is an insult to the dead vicitms, and even to the living.
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I remember some newspaper articles about the “History Commission” in Dresden. At the outset was the statement of the then Lord Mayor (“Oberbürgermeister”) of Dresden, Ingo Rossbach that he “would not accept a finding with a number higher than 25000”. Well, if it’s like that.
Until 1990 the number generally given was 253000, 34000 unanimously and uniquely identified (ID card, living quarters, wedding rings), 69000 partially (e.g., limbs, body parts, partially identifiable documents)and about 150000 unidentified but distinct.
British estimates from the late forties were 25000 (I believe that both general Fuller and Belgion gave that number).
Even nowadays charred bodies come to light in Dresden.
The number of victims in the Dresden bombing is clearly a politically charged subject, but to limit by decree the finding of a “distinguished commission” is laughable. Under these circumstances, the commission might as well not have met for any reason at all. The massive destruction of Dresden however, with the number of refugees from East Germany, the intent of killing as many as possible, and the comparison with, e.g. Pforzheim, the much smaller city, makes it very likely that the initial estimate of about 250000 dead is about the right number, given at a time when te full extent of the slaughter was obvious to the eye.
There will come a time, when the Federal Republic of Germany, this artificial and unlegitimized entity founded by decree of the Western allies, and never given legitimacy by a free expression of the German people, will be no more and all is coercive structures will be eliminated. A free discussion will then be possible. A free discussion should also be held in England and America, free of wartime urges and necessities, as the defeat of Germany 1945 has spread rather to a defeat of the occident in general.
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Bruce,
Your post is extremely well stated. Thanks for the additional information.
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Reblogged this on katana.
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Reblogged this on rickgearon.
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Yes, the firebombings on Dresden was the unique and real Holocaust. The word, “Holocaust,” means ä whole burnt sacrifice. Second, it is allowed to estimate the number of victims of Dresden in different numbers, 200.000, 300,000, etc. But not so with the “Holocaust” which was, in reality, no Holocaust at all.; it must and will be 6.000.000 victims. Doubt of this ist stark verboten in Germany (and some other European countries). Thus we come to this conclusion: the victims of Dresden (and many other German cities which became the target of Allied firebombings) are of minor (or no) importance at all. It is the number of Jewish victims which were (and are still) important. Why? Well, the Talmud says, “Only the Jews are called “Man”; the non-Jews (under which mainly the Germans), äre nothing but beasts.” (Baba Mezia). So, anti-German lying propaganda (and I am also talking of the anti-German propaganda during WW I), was, in fact, Talmudism in action. It will be clear that this post will be reblogged!
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Reblogged this on Tinthor's Blog and commented:
Dresden, February 14-15 1945. Forget the “Holocaust of six million”; the real Holocaust was committed by the Allies by means of firebombings on a large scale on Dresden.”Holocaust” means, in fact, a wholly burnt sacrifice.
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This mass murder of the German citizens – why? why? why? The whole attempt in creating a war to genocide the German people was due to the threat their economic and social success AND INDEPENDENCE – AND EVEN WORSE THE EXAMPLE TO THE WORLD IT SET – the threat it posed to the power of the international Jewish world conquerors.
The following (apologies for its length) is sourced from “The World Conquerors: The Real War Criminals” 1958, by Louis Marschalko:
“It makes little difference whether or not the Jewish question was ‘over-emphasised’ by National Socialism. It is of no importance either that National Socialism actually adopted the racial theory of the Old Testament as one of its instrumental devices; for even had it forsworn these, it would still inevitably have clashed with world Jewry, which COULD NOT TOLERATE THE EXISTENCE OF ANY OTHER NATIONALISM ON EARTH.
The National Socialists might have treated Jewry as humanely as possible, but this would not have altered the fact that the secret power exercised by Jews over the German Reich was BEING TAKEN OUT OF THEIR HAND, which was absolutely intolerable for them.
Besides, they could not afford to contemplate such creative energy, such striving towards national unity, such influence wielded by an ‘elite’, all of which were things bearing irreconcilable hostility towards the power aspirations of world Jewry.
They could not bear the fact that by the elimination of the power of gold, not only were state power and the means of influencing public affairs wrenched out of their hands, but the secret power as well.
In any case, from the moment world Jewry realized that Germany was being ruled by a conscious ‘elite’, it would have promptly turned against National Socialism with just as much hatred as it actually did when ‘anti-semitism’ gave an excuse for it.
By loosing Germany, Jewry lost a territory from which it had exerted power. Therefore it was determined to re-conquer it.
For a century, world Jewry, Marxism and liberal capitalism had been adopting mass-production methods to transform the people into unthinking masses, the free individual into the proletarian. They had realized, of course, that only unthinking herds could accept and endure the yoke of Judah….
At this time even Winston Churchill had a different opinion of National Socialism from that which he professed later. Churchill wrote of Hitler in ‘Step by Step’:
‘If our country were defeated, I hope we should find a champion as indomitable to restore our courage and lead us back to our place among the nations.”
But Social Nationalism was condemned to war for this very reason. At the moment when Hitler took power with the determination of abolishing the (unjust) system of Versailles and of raising his own people, then somewhere in the veiled secrecy of the lodges and in the mystic inner shrines of Jewish nationalism a declaration of war was immediately decided upon….
‘Can we be sure that America will also come to heel?’ was the question the Jews must have been asking themselves at this time.
‘We can be sure that the Soviet Union will be on our side when the great war comes. We can also rely confidently upon the France of Leon Blum, of Reynaud-Mandel, of Lazarus’ Bank of the Grand Orient and the Rothschilds.
We can be certain that when the time comes the England of the Sassoons, of Rufus Isaacs, of Hore-Belisha, of the Gallachers, Stracheys and Laskis will fight to further our ends.’ …..
“…we shall respond with the guns of America or China or Japan!” is written in Protocol VII [The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion]. “Therefore, we must first conquer America to ensure the conquest of the world. We must bolshevise or socialise America from above without it being noticed.”
…..As soon as such a parasite force develops inside democracy, democracy itself is reduced to nothing. It is transformed into a minority-ruled herd. The right of the vote becomes a myth since public opinion is being shaped by the press of this alien nationalism. The parliamentary system is debase to that of a theatrical act…….the government itself will be manned by members of this secret force….”
Well here Marschalko is describing the American governing system today, under the control of the World Conquerors, just like Germany, tragically!
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There is much truth in the quotes and analysis you share, Wakey. The charge of anti-Semitism was used to justify the destruction of Germany. And, let us be honest with ourselves here. The Jews interpret any and all checks on their power as such “anti-Semtism”.
Yes, in the First World War, there was atrocity propaganda used against the Kaiser’s troops in the low countries. This was purposely used to stir up hatred of the Germans and helped to justify America’s entry into the war. After the war, this propaganda was debunked. The Allies in 1945 were determined to not allow such debunking of alleged German “crimes against humanity” during the Second World War. Of course, they peddled this holocaust tale in 1945 to justify in the public’s mind their complete destruction of Germany and the war crimes they (the Allies) had committed during the war, and were then intent on committing in their brutal, punitive occupation of Germany.
Diplomatic correspondence came to light after the war in various books that tells of American and British diplomats remarking in the Spring of 1939, that war in Europe had been decided upon. There was nothing that Germany could do to avoid the war that was forced on to it. (And, who was goading France and Britain (in addition to the British war party) into war with Germany? The demon himself, with his abysmal failure of a New Deal, Franklin Roosevelt!)
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Jewish intrigue, malfeasance and treachery are directly or indirectly responsible for both World War I and World War II https://nationalvanguard.org/2016/07/the-petition-that-isnt-allowed-on-change-org-expel-jews-from-america/
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I’m currently reading a Kindle book which purports (and I believe) to be the transcription of a stenographer’s recording of an interview of Heinrich “Gestapo” Mueller, by a representative of the CIA, which took place in 1948, in Switzerland. Mueller claims that the “Police President” of Dresden issued a report on the bombing and the report states that 250,000 people, or possibly a few more, were killed in the bombing.
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Reblogged this on World War 2 Truth.
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Reblogged this on THE FOURTH REICH CENTURY and commented:
THE REAL.SOLE.HOLOCAUST.HELLO.WORLD.
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